Monday, October 29, 2007

Live Blogging: "The Minister's Black Veil"

This is the last of the live blogging, so let's make it happen, people!

Remember to proofread carefully before publishing your comments. Enjoy!

63 comments:

krump said...

So far we've done an excellent job of creaming 4th hour and I don't think they even realize it... More than 98 comments this time, we can do it :)

erinl said...

So..Starter question..
What was the significance of the color black?

Anonymous said...

Okay question
Why dont we get to see his face in the end?

jberry said...

I think that black, like all other gothic stories, evil... or mabye the unknown.

Damian L. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
erinl said...

I was thinking that black was sin?? I'm not sure. I was just curious as to why black and not red or white.

krump said...

Sweta--I think that he was so adament about keeping the veil on his face, and he was so effective in impacting the people that they just wanted to respect his wishes.

Anonymous said...

I'll start of with an argument, i think that the veil was a symbolic meaning, a face we show to the world, a face like everyone else’s, while we hiding are true meaning, anyone want to play Devil's advocate?

Anonymous said...

Maria-
That makes sense...do you think that the people were maybe afraid to see his face?

jberry said...

Do you guys think that the black veil was covering up a deformity.... or was it just a way to mentally hide?

krump said...

A black veil kinda reminds me of death, like in Harry Potter. Red is different, brighter, and white is pure, but black has no color at all.

Anonymous said...

I definitly think that black means sin and I am not really sure if he was trying to hide his sin or if he wanted to show people that we need to be more aware of our own sin.

krump said...

Why did the veil impact the village people so much? Why were they so afraid?

Anonymous said...

On the topic "he turned into something awful, when he hide his face" why is this. Why must we conform to the mindset of humanity, why can't we be different?

Anonymous said...

But it was so weird that all of a sudden he started wearing the black veil it seemed for no apparent reason

erinl said...

I didn't think that the veil was to cover a deformity becuase one day he just randomly decides to wear it. If it was a deformity than I think that people would have noticed.

Anonymous said...

Maria-
I think it goes back to being scared of new changes.

jberry said...

I think that the veil was a way to hide from the truth. Being covered up in a black veil was a refuge. He was too afraid to show himself and his true personality, by having a veil no one could see him. They coudln't look at him as a person because they were so caught up in the veil. Like the old man's eye in Tall Tale Heart.

Annika_EP said...

Sweta- I think he didn't take it off because it would always be there to cover him. I don't quite know how to verbalize my thoughts... The point of the story was that it would be creepy and he wouldn't take it off, and the only satisfaction the reader would get would be to know what is underneath. But by not knowing what is underneath at all, it is just all the more illusive and creepy.

krump said...

Sweta--That's what I first thought too, but it seems silly that they would be afraid to see his face. Maybe it's like what Brynn said in the center, that they are just afraid of the unknown.

Anonymous said...

jberry- I don't think that he was hiding a deformity, I think that he is distancing himself from the sins of humanity.

Anonymous said...

Erin-
I agree. I think it had something to do with revelation.
He realized that everyone "wears" a black veil, but he decided to make his visible.

Damian L. said...

On the contrary Josh we use truth to hide our sin like a veil hides our face, our true self.

Annika_EP said...

The black basically just left a depressing blanket of sin over the entire town.

Anonymous said...

Responding to Maria I think that it is showing how we have a huge fear of the unknown and we are always afraid of things that we will never know. It is showing that when we are faced with the unknown our imagination begins to run wild and we begin to make up things that never really happened in the beginning

erinl said...

But like Devon said, it was really random. What made him decide to wear a black veil? Why didn't he wear the veil from the begining?

jberry said...

Erin-
Maybe something happened to him that he decided to wear the veil. This reminds me alot of Phantom of the Opera... the guy wore a mask to hide his ugly face so that he could kill all the bad looks towards himself. He didn't want people to be looking at him negatively.

Annika_EP said...

Josh- that is really interesting. I had never thought of it that he was trying to get away from others sins. I think that makes a lot of sense, instead of him covering up his own.

krump said...

New Question:

What happened to make him want to wear it? Why did all of a sudden he decide to wear a black veil for the rest of his life?

Anonymous said...

Annika-
That makes perfect sense since it is a gothic unit.
But do you think if there is any significane that the veil always remained on his face?

Anonymous said...

jberry- I don't think that the veil hides the truth, I think it brings it to light, and makes the minister an individual not just a townsperson.

juliab said...

Jess - I definitely think that the veil was worn to perserve his mental state.

I thought that it was very interesting how the subtitle was "A Parable." So what do you think the "lesson" of the parable is?

I personally think that it means to show people how ridiculous they act when with "different" people. I think that Hawthorne was criticizing people's frequency to jump to conclusions about people at the slightest strange occurence. There is no trust, and so the lack of trust has called the minister to show these people their ridiculous actions. He failed at changing them though.

Annika_EP said...

I really like Krista's question:
Why did he suddenly freak out when he saw his own reflection?

jberry said...

josh--
Do you think that he was hiding behind the veil to hide from HIS sins... or from the town around him. Why didn't he just leave if he wasn't okay with the town?
The inner circle is talking about how he was afraid seeing himself in the veil... is that why he was so upset... because it was like seeing his sins?

Anonymous said...

Damian- How do you use truth to hide your face, wouldn't it bring it to light and free you from the sinful humanity.

Damian L. said...

Josh if he is a minister shouldn’t he make himself closer with sin rather than distancing?

Anonymous said...

jberry great connection with the phantom of the opera! My question for josh would be why does he feel like he can not take of the mask even at the brink of death and it almost makes you feel that god is the only one who can take of his mask.

krump said...

Whoa, same question, sorry.

Erin--I think that maybe he was so fed up with some of the people's appearance vs. reality, and wanted to see if by physically drawing attention to this, he could stop it.

Annika_EP said...

Sweta-
I think it is to make the secret more imposing. If he took it on and off, it would become more familiar. And this unfamiliarity scares us just like the mask itself.

krump said...

Julia--I noticed that too, I thought it would have some unexpected ending to teach us something. But maybe the fact that there wasn't something unexpected was unexpected, and the author is trying to teach us what happens when we cover up reality.

juliab said...

I think that the veil/mask could symbolize his feelings toward the town and how he seems to despise the town.

Did anyone feel that he despised the town, or was that just me?
Also, did anyone see the strong resemblance between Proctor and the minister?

Anonymous said...

Annika-
So people are scared of changed and they lose stability when they see the uncommon?
Is that only in this society, or society in general?

erinl said...

Maria-
That was the question that I was going for. I was wondering what triggered him to start wearing the veil. The author didn't really leave any information that hinted to any event that made him start wearing the veil.
And I would like to say that I really liked Brynn's last comment. I totally agree that he felt like two different people and by wearing the veil to show he had sins and was looking to be forgiven.

jberry said...

julia--
Your comment is really interesting. I think that is exactly what he is saying. I think that people don't take the time to fully understand a person because they are so caught up in their outer appearance. By having your face covered, people can't judge you, people only have you're personality to base their judgements about. So, i wonder how our actions would be towards eachother if we were all veiled...?

Anonymous said...

Jberry- I think that he is hiding from the sins of all of us, separating himself from the rest of us and rising above sins to become a creature of pure emotion, without sin.
I don't think he was afraid of seeing his own sins in this face, he is afraid of being controlled by sin changing him for the worst.

Damian L. said...

Josh the use of truth is in the hand of the wielder; if you fear something to be true or want it to be true so bad you see it as truth. This hides the falsehood of the sins, and allows them to be seen.

Anonymous said...

Julia-
I see some connections with Proctor and Minister because in the Crucible Proctor seemed the only sensible one and a little bit of a "know it all"
Here the minister is also portrayed as the same.

Annika_EP said...

Sweta-
I think mainly in everyone in general, and it takes a LOT of discipline and work to think oppositely.

Anonymous said...

Damian- I don't think so, should he distance himself from sin to set an example and allow others to follow?

krump said...

Devon--Good question, that's interesting. It's like the very last line in the story, "..awful still is the thought that it mouldered beneath the Black Veil!" it's like the villagers didn't believe that he would still be veiled after they buried him in the ground.

kyle said...

The minister smiles many times throughout the story. Why does he smile? Is he happy? Does he find something funny?

Damian L. said...

Josh- How can you fully distance yourself from sin?

erinl said...

Maria-
Don't even worry about it. That was the question I was going for but couldn't put in words..

I agree with the appearance vs. reality, he wanted to see if people could see in themselves and look at their sin so they could be forgiven.
Like Alex just said.

jberry said...

josh---
So your saying that by putting on a black veil he could be unique and not fit the average mold that many people just tend to fit. My question for you then is what kind of reaction do you think he was looking for? Becuase he got alot more negative outlooks and judgements because of the veil. Before he was a good priest who was respected.. and he lost all that.

juliab said...

I agree with what Alex just said in the inside discussion!

Anonymous said...

Jberry- I don't think he was trying to get reaction he was just doing it, he was stepping out of bounds of the conformity and looking at pity with those still in.
Also, I don't think he lost the respect of others it's just their perspective changed, so he gained a different kind of respect like it says in the story " Mr. Hooper had the reputation of a good preacher, but not an energetic one: he strove to win his people heavenward by mild, persuasive influences, rather than to drive them thither by the thunders of the Word. The sermon which he now delivered was marked by the same characteristics of style and manner as the general series of his pulpit oratory. But there was something, either in the sentiment of the discourse itself, or in the imagination of the auditors, which made it greatly the most powerful effort that they had ever heard from their pastor's lips. It was tinged, rather more darkly than usual, with the gentle gloom of Mr. Hooper's temperament... A subtle power was breathed into his words. Each member of the congregation, the most innocent girl, and the man of hardened breast, felt as if the preacher had crept upon them, behind his awful veil, and discovered their hoarded iniquity of deed or thought".

Anonymous said...

Damian- Good question. You really cannot distance yourself from sin, but you can strive to, making you a better person as a whole. Also, I think the act of striving to distance yourself from sin partial absolves you from sin.

(P.S. I cheated I entered this at 3:55)

Anonymous said...

Jberry- On the subject of The Phantom of the Opera and him not wanting to be thought of in a negative way, didn't it just make it worse because they thought him to be a monster behind the mask, because he was half-man and half-unknown.

Anonymous said...

erinl- I think that the authour did kind of leave a hint of why the minister is wearing a veil in the story, "The subject had reference to secret sin, and those sad mysteries which we hide from our nearest and dearest, and would fain conceal from our own consciousness, even forgetting that the Omniscient can detect them".

Damian L. said...

Nice Josh, but vanity is one of the seven deadly sins and striving to rid yourself from sin could be seen as taking and overt sense of pride in your abilities to go where most others can't.

Laine G said...

I thought it was very interesting how the narrator pointed out that a simple veil that normally on a hat and makes women attractive caused all the villagers to be scared. The fact that the veil when acceptable is on a hat shows how the sin is resting upon the shoulders of a person but does not obstruct the view of a person so it is then OK. The sin is actually viewed as desirable until it starts to intrude on the daily life of the person. When a trusted person like their minister goes out and openly shows his hidden sin the people become very scared of him.

adamb said...

Damien said “Josh the use of truth is in the hand of the wielder; if you fear something to be true or want it to be true so bad you see it as truth. This hides the falsehood of the sins, and allows them to be seen.” This comment is completely true. If think enough or want it bad enough, a falsehood can become true. History has many examples. The belief that the pharaoh was a god, that the earth was flat, Manifest Destiny, etc. The Crucible is a perfect example of this. People wanted to believe that the girls were innocent and that there were witches in their town. They deluded themselves into believing this which cost people their lives

adamb said...

“Nice Josh, but vanity is one of the seven deadly sins and striving to rid yourself from sin could be seen as taking and overt sense of pride in your abilities to go where most others can't.” This is interesting. He is saying that distancing yourself form sin could turn into one. I again bring up The Crucible, the village tried to distance themselves from sin and their eventual ignorance and pride caused them to just commit greater sins. Perhaps sin is just a natural part of life and by distancing yourself from it, you are disrupting the balnce and actually pushing yourself towards it.